SigmaSuccour said 7 months ago:

When someone suffering from depression, suicidal thoughts, social anxiety (and such) gives you advice on how to resolve your depression, suicidal thoughts, social anxiety (and such).
Then following their advice… won’t help you in your quest for a better life. Listening to them, would actually be more harming then positive for you.
That’s like listening to the advice of a financially poor person, to learn how to be financially super-rich.
That’s like listening the advice of a person who does not know how to drive… about decent driving.
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Hence for advice, I VERY sincerely suggest… that you study, and take advice, from people who are happy. Look into the habits of people who are happy and strong and successful, DON’T look into the habits of people who suffer from the same issue as you.
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I also VERY sincerely suggest, to the likes of depressed people giving open advise on depression… is to please kindly educate yourself before using your tongue (and before typing anything). Because I find you lot, unintentionally ruining other people’s life.
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For my intention of typing out this post, I write this only because It sincerely hurts… to not only see people in-front of you fall, but to see people who think they are ‘helping’, while doing the exact opposite.

rinseandrep said 7 months ago:

Mmmh, disagree, too ableist. People who go through one’s same problems are as often as helpful as “healthy” people talking out of their ass are unhelpful. On top of that, everything is in the clear so anyone can stand up and call out bad advice and behavior, both from “healthy” and “ill” people.

SigmaSuccour said 7 months ago:

//too ableist.// @rinseandrep
> Albeist? Pardon my ignorance rinse, but how is taking advice from people who are good at what you want, and being super critical about (or ignoring) people who are bad at it, albeism? (does the question make sense?)
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//People who go through one’s same problems are as often as helpful as “healthy” people talking out of their ass are unhelpful.//
> Would you kindly rephrase this? I’m having trouble making sense of this. Thank you.
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//…so anyone can stand up and call out bad advice and behavior…//
> The fact that people who are occasionally (if not often) are coming here since an year+, and are still suffering from the same problems they came with, is a testament to the ‘Counter-productiveness’ of this community in being able to help people.
(the post history of members here will be sufficient evidence for you.)
Hence I believe most of the advises given here, are super bad. (if most of them worked, people wouldn’t be coming back with the same problem.)
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//On top of that, everything is in the clear so anyone can stand up and call out bad advice and behavior, both from “healthy” and “ill” people.//
> Rinse… buddy… the only way a person can distinguish between a ‘good’ psychological advice, and a ‘bad’ psychological advice… is if they are educated/knowledgeable on the subject of psychology.
If someone gives me business investment advice (without telling me how I would succeed with it.) then I (who has no knowledge or experience in the subject ‘business investment’) cannot judge the advise to be ‘good’ or ‘bad’.
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So since people here are not knowledgeable about their issues, they cannot judge clearly, if the advice being given to them, is good or bad. (unless the consequences of following the advice have been laid bare. Which never is.)
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If you believe I can judge it to be good or bad, just by listening to the advice, then please, do enlighten me. I’m curious to read your reply.
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(And if you want me to speak up and against every single ‘bad advice’ given here… then I’m ready to do that. But know that, it constitutes pretty much every single advice given… (including yours of course) I would be talking against every single person here. That’s why I made this post in a ‘general’ perspective to engage in a discussion with the people here.)

rinseandrep said 7 months ago:

The idea that someone who, for example, doesn’t have an eating disorder is, just for that, more competent than someone who has one, is risible, and ableist. If you want to say that an expert in ED, degrees and all, is better at giving advice than an uninformed person, sure (not that it makes it a dichotomy with other feedback from people in the same situation). But you are not saying that.

People take time to get through stuff. people relapse, people take time to absorb and put in action “good advice”. People vent. Cycles. Short time is not a good indicator. The idea of a rapid easy fix is unrealistic, a scam even, a get-rich-quick scheme maybe, to use your comparison.
The site itself is about venting, not fixing, I don’t see your point. We also aren’t supposed to be the only source of support for people, trained mental health professionals and moderated peer support groups are better, and easier to evaluate as competent.

I don’t understand either how you are supposed to know who’s the “rich successful guy with super good advice” then, to use your comparison again. I don’t see titles or qualifications here to help us see who is actually “good at advice” and not yet another “super bad adviser”, maybe one even who gets enmeshed too much, degrading their allegedly pristine output. The quality of what is said will speak for itself, I guess.

Sure, go for it, and/or keep offering your advice if you think it’s missing from the one already offered. I know I do. People will just answer back, and the original posters will choose what resonates/works for them, what they keep reading/hearing and then eventually decide to try. (@sigmasuccour)

SigmaSuccour said 6 months, 4 weeks ago:

@rinseandrep
//…If you want to say that an expert in ED, degrees and all,//
> First of all, in no way do I say, that a ‘degree’ or an ‘academic label’ represent the expertise of a person. He/she may not be practically knowledgeable in the subject they hold a degree in (and that’s mostly the case). And i’m a firm promoter of this idea, and its because I do not agree with this that I dropped out of the academic education.

I see the mis-communication in the point regarding albeism.
Let’s say there are 3 bunch of people,
i) There are people that have experienced depression, and now are out of it completely.
ii) There are people who have never faced depression.
iii) And there are people who are currently facing depression.
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I bunch the first two together. And suggest that one should study the habits of, and take the advice of the first two bunch. (That will inform you the habits of being happy, practicing which would allow you freedom from depression.). And I also suggest that one should be critical about the advice given by bunch no. iii (because its evident from their state of mind that following their lifestyle, won’t be beneficial.)
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So allow me to clearify, according to your rationale, you are suggesting that bunch no.iii’s advice, is better then bunch no.ii’s advice? Correct? (because the third are experiencing it.)
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//Short time is not a good indicator. //
> An year+ is a ‘short’ time? O_O For a psychological issue? What time is sufficient (in your point of view), for us to begin to ‘question’ our own methods?
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//The idea of a rapid easy fix is unrealistic, a scam even, a get-rich-quick scheme maybe, to use your comparison.//
> I get the sense of what you are talking about, and to a degree I agree. Though the study of hypnosis and NLP have greatly broken this generalized ‘myth’ that ‘psychological fixes’ take long time. Some do, not all.
But of course, in the case of providing online service, its understandable if it takes long.
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//The site itself is about venting, not fixing,//
//trained mental health professionals and moderated peer support groups are better, and easier to evaluate as competent.//
> True. I seem to have mis-interpreted that. Thank you for reminding me (yet again XD )
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//I don’t understand either how you are supposed to know who’s the “rich successful guy with super good advice” then, to use your comparison again.//
> A way you can distinguish ‘good’ advice from ‘bad’. Is by knowing all (or most of) the ‘consequences’ of following that advice. If you agree and are comfortable with the consequences that come with the practicing of that advice, then for you, its good.
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My concern here is that, most people don’t share the ‘consequences’ when they give advice. So since the other person does not know ‘what’ exactly will happen when they follow the advice, then its just a gamble. (and the person cannot judge much.)
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//…they keep reading/hearing and then eventually decide to try.//
> You are correct. Thank you.
Perhaps that’s all one can do.

Orchid Malevolence said 6 months, 4 weeks ago:

Your statement relies on the presumption that by following ‘happy’ people and imitating their habits, individuals undergoing mental illnesses can become happy. This might sometimes be the case, but there are cases where it might not work (such as if your mental illness has clinical/genetic roots). This is evident in the many times I’ve heard people undergoing clinical depression refer to a time when someone might tell them to go watch a movie with them because it’ll make them feel better and feeling frustrated because it doesn’t work. In other terms, for someone who has severe chronic pain, the coping mechanisms and associated medication can be very different than someone dealing with a stubbed toe.

I won’t even pretend to know what that’s like, I have not been clinically depressed nor have I faced anxiety/pain in that way. I can’t just go to someone who has trouble going to sleep because of their anxiety and tell them to read a book. Reading a book is what helps me, I can only suggest it as an idea and that’s what I believe this site is all about. It’s about connecting with/supporting others by sharing bits of your life with one another and being kind to them. This isn’t a shrine of knowledge that people enter to be fixed and listeners aren’t gurus. Even the modern medical system might not have the answers because people live with illnesses all the time.

By talking to someone in a similar situation as yourself, you can see things in yourself which you might not have noticed before. Also, different people have different ways of coping with the same illness. By learning how others cope with theirs, you can gather a better understanding of yours. Learning that, for example, happy people eat healthy and exercise regularly might not necessarily help someone with an eating disorder. Chances are, they might know that already.

Also keep in mind that happy is a very relative term, what constitutes a ‘happy’ person is debatable.

@sigmasuccour

SigmaSuccour said 6 months, 4 weeks ago:

I understand what you are saying, and I shall keep all of it in my mind from now on. Thank you for taking the time to type this out. I appreciate it.
@silent-radiance

mariko said 6 months, 4 weeks ago:

I suffer from depression and chronical anxiety and I saved 3 people from killing themselves in real life (so I’m not even incluiding people from here).
What you say doesn’t make sense because I KNOW how that person feels. I won’t lie to that person and give them pretty lies like some people do, cause if it wouldn’t help me, wouldn’t help the person. But I’m supportive, I listen, I give them the advice that works for me and that worked for other people and I’m always looking forward to learn more and help these people.
In fact I have friends in the pshycology department so I learn from them.
In summary it works.What you say doesn’t make sense to me because it’s the same as someone who had cancer giving people who have cancer currently some advice how to get through it. It works. Cause the people who’ve went through that they understand.
Besides in this shitty world shouldn’t you be happy that people at least are available to give advice and talk? Sure it might be not the best advice but let me tell you, negativity doesn’t lead you anymore. Critizing it doesn’t lead you anywhere.
This website was created so people help each other, no matter what your situation.

SigmaSuccour said 6 months, 4 weeks ago:

You are correct on every point @marikofujimoto. I’m very sorry on my part.

mariko said 6 months, 4 weeks ago:

You don’t need to apologise, it’s my point of view. You can have yours I just shared mine. I think positivity would be better (like a more positive perspective you know) but everyone has their own opinion. I just thought of responding and giving my opinion :b

Orchid Malevolence said 6 months, 4 weeks ago:

@sigmasuccour No problem :) . From your previous posts it’s clear that you like analyzing things which is definitely a useful quality to have.

SigmaSuccour said 6 months, 4 weeks ago:

//…I just thought of responding and giving my opinion// @marikofujimoto
//…which is definitely a useful quality to have.// @silent-radiance
> Again, my sincere thanks to each of you. .
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Huggable Cactus said 6 months, 4 weeks ago:

I’d say.. Listening to the “advice” of someone who leads a happy life without ever having had even a hint of depression, anxiety, etc, is like taking directions from a person who’s never been in the city you’re in.

SigmaSuccour said 6 months, 4 weeks ago:

@huggable-cactus
> Is there anyone who has NOT faced depression, anxiety, sadness, frustration, hopelessness and etc?
A person CANNOT experience relaxation without stress, no peace without pain, no success without failure, no hope without hopelessness, no good without bad. Similarly NO one who who genuinely values ‘happiness’, can do so without going through some sort of depressive phase.
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If you want people to ‘understand’ you and sympathize with you. (and that’s all that you want) Then Yes! people who are in exactly the same mental boat as you, (i.e, having the same issues/concerns) they would be best at it. They would understand you the best. (I suppose)
But if you want to move out from your mental boat, into another one… then (according to my original post) you may have to STOP this desire of wanting to be understood. And start working on ‘understanding’ the mental boat of people you want to be like. (i.e, who have succeeded in overcoming challenges like yourself.)
Does that make sense?

Huggable Cactus said 6 months, 4 weeks ago:

Yes, there are people who do not suffer from major mental problems that tends to ruin lives and never has. Please do remember there’s a difference between depression and sadness, crippling anxiety and nervousness, etc.
Not to mention depressive periods due to actual reasons VS life-consuming, (seemingly neverending) depression for no obvious reason.

Understanding the problem is needed to give relevant advice and info, isn’t it?

And then you have people like me, with PTSD. Understanding my illness is CRITICAL to give me the help needed. I will not take advice from someone who’s not either educated or “in the same boat”, because of the high danger of pushing myself out over a cliff instead of upwards closer to success.
Which is the same as with my autoimmune disease. I prefer someone with experience with the disease or an actual doctor.

I will NOT take the advice of someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Would you?